Aja and Cedric dive headfirst into the explosive departure of football icon Deion Sanders from Jackson State University to the University of Colorado. They kick off the discussion with Deion's shocking move, dissecting Dr. Greg Carr's incisive comments on respectability politics and the immense pressure Black individuals face to conform. The fashion police make an appearance as Jay Norvell's criticism of Deion's attire and demeanor gets scrutinized, alongside a heated showdown of coaching records between Deion and Jay Norvell.
The podcast then delves into the lasting impact of Deion Sanders on HBCU athletics, with Aja passionately defending his transformative influence. The controversy surrounding his decision to leave an HBCU for a predominantly white institution sparks a fiery debate. Shifting gears, they address the dire financial challenges HBCUs face and their desperate need for additional resources, shining a spotlight on the Magic City Classic and its significance in Birmingham, Alabama.
Loyalty takes center stage as they explore whether Deion was disloyal to Jackson State, with Cedric offering a compelling perspective on how this move might be a golden opportunity for HBCUs to ascend. The episode concludes with a call to action, stressing the importance of HBCUs positioning themselves for long-term success and the role of NFL alumni, government funding, and the Black community's support in achieving that goal.
This podcast episode doesn't pull any punches, delivering a raw and unapologetic take on the Deion Sanders saga, the struggles faced by HBCUs, and the roadmap for the future. Strap in for a no-holds-barred discussion that leaves no stone unturned.
Aja and Cedric dive headfirst into the explosive departure of football icon Deion Sanders from Jackson State University to the University of Colorado. They kick off the discussion with Deion's shocking move, dissecting Dr. Greg Carr's incisive comments on respectability politics and the immense pressure Black individuals face to conform. The fashion police make an appearance as Jay Norvell's criticism of Deion's attire and demeanor gets scrutinized, alongside a heated showdown of coaching records between Deion and Jay Norvell.
The podcast then delves into the lasting impact of Deion Sanders on HBCU athletics, with Aja passionately defending his transformative influence. The controversy surrounding his decision to leave an HBCU for a predominantly white institution sparks a fiery debate. Shifting gears, they address the dire financial challenges HBCUs face and their desperate need for additional resources, shining a spotlight on the Magic City Classic and its significance in Birmingham, Alabama.
Loyalty takes center stage as they explore whether Deion was disloyal to Jackson State, with Cedric offering a compelling perspective on how this move might be a golden opportunity for HBCUs to ascend. The episode concludes with a call to action, stressing the importance of HBCUs positioning themselves for long-term success and the role of NFL alumni, government funding, and the Black community's support in achieving that goal.
This podcast episode doesn't pull any punches, delivering a raw and unapologetic take on the Deion Sanders saga, the struggles faced by HBCUs, and the roadmap for the future. Strap in for a no-holds-barred discussion that leaves no stone unturned.
What's up everybody? Dr Asia King.
Speaker 2:And I'm Cedric Wothersmo.
Speaker 1:And we are your host for the colors of our culture, a podcast where we talk about raw and rugged conversations. We dive into the deep crevices of the human experiences so that we can talk and express ourselves without any barriers. We have conversations that go beyond what you are used to, so get ready, buckle up, for some deep, funny, maybe some uncomfortable conversations, but, most importantly, authentic and real. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Let's get it. What's up, y'all? This is Cedric Wothersmo here. I am coming from Minneapolis and we're already hot and ready to roll. This week we are going to talk about De-UnSanus yes, prime time, yes, prime time. Former HBCU, jackson State coach, who have transitioned to Colorado State Not Colorado State, my bad, colorado. Now we are Dr Asia and I saw a clip from Roland Martin, unfiltered, with Dr Greg Carr, hbcu professor. He is Roland Martin's main contributor Great guy. He always come with some excellent perspective. He's always pro black. So we're going to play a clip from Dr Carr and Dr Asia and I are going to get together and we're going to talk about what Dr Carr said. We're going to break it down and we're going to talk about De-UnSanus and this transition. That's what everybody want to hear. So we're going to roll the clip and then we'll come back and talk about it.
Speaker 3:I think what you're dealing with here and actually I'm going to start with you, greg, when you start hearing respectability phrases, we all know that there are certain things that are said that appeals to a lot of white folks in terms of how we respond, because we all know what folks say. I remember when we saw little Brian told me that was a black exec at CNN who said that I wasn't the right kind of black and questioned my attire, the suits that I wore, and didn't like me wearing pinstripe suits and, as always, trying to get us to change our look and how we speak to make white folks more comfortable. And so when I heard that coming from J Norvell, and then you throw your mama in and basically what you're saying is my black mama raised me right, but see, that's one of them over there for the other side of tracks. His black mama didn't raise him right because he don't take his hat off and take his shades off.
Speaker 3:Last year last year, and he was J Norvell, coached at Nevada for five years and he went 33 in 26. So he was only five games over 500. So then he got hired at Colorado State Last year. Colorado State went three and nine. They opened the season zero and one. So that's the coaching record. That's the coaching record of J Norvell. Now, if I pull up right now, greg, the coaching record of Dion Sanders, and I look at Jackson State and then I look at Colorado, let's see Jackson State went four and three, then 11 and two, then 12 and one, now they're two and no. So he's lost six games, as a head coach has won 29 games. I don't know about a kid by no dog on hat and shades. They judge you baseball wins and losses and I'm sitting there going like J Norvell. Come on, man, you a brother, you know better than that nonsense.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know Norvell and Sanders are both black employees of historically plantation college athletics. I really don't have a dog in this fight, roland. It may not be easy for some folk to hear but you know, back in April the UFC and WWF teamed up to merge and create a 21.4. Billion dollar sports entertainment company. I look at plantation style college athletics the way I look at WWF wrestling. The only people who think that's real are the spectators. And I think Dion Sanders is great for historically plantation college athletics with the cowboy hats and the shades.
Speaker 4:I saw him walk a white lady onto the field playing an HBC song. It wasn't the band playing it, thank God. If you says, give me my theme music to the Colorado band, I hope they play money, money, money, money, because here I go was left in Jackson. But you know I did take note. I do take note of the fact that of the 36,000 students at the University of Colorado, only about two and a half percent of black, that for the first time in the history of their spring game they charged $10 a seat and they made $600,000 off of admissions, concessions and swag gear. Sanders is moving a lot of product there and he said himself last weekend that they made about. He thinks the city of Boulder made about $18 million.
Speaker 4:Dion Sanders is good for business, like WWF conflict sales, and so I really don't take any of this very seriously. Dion Sanders missed his historical moment. I think his historical moment would have been to take all that talent and all that swag and all that branding and keep it in HBC use. Once he did that, he rejoined the historically plantation ecosystem with which he is very familiar. I wish him the best. I wish him the worst. I really don't have a dog in this fight, and when it comes to the kind of talk they're having, whether the other brother is a brother and that is a really of no consequence to them because all they doing is counting money, brother, it's prime time in Boulder.
Speaker 2:What's up, doc? I know you love football, being from Alabama and from the SEC. What are your thoughts on what Dr Carr said?
Speaker 1:So, OK, he makes a very valid point so I enjoy. I'm going to be honest, I don't like football like that. I really don't. Yeah, I'm from Alabama. I will watch an Alabama game every now and then, but I don't really keep up with the sport. It's dangerous and just folks hitting each other is just I don't know. I don't consider that a source of fun. But I know the controversy around Dion Sanders and or as everybody refers to him as prime time, and I've always watched Dion like growing up, so I've seen him play in instances and I've seen the flashiness. But one thing that I really do like about Dion is his confidence and his ability to put on a show while on well, so while I may not really keep up with football, I have been keeping my ear close to this Colorado situation because it is truly interesting on how people are reacting from his transfer from Jackson State to Colorado.
Speaker 2:I love myself from some prime time I say flying times, prime time. He's from the state of Florida and so you know he gets love on this side because I'm a Florida boy myself. But I think he's he's done an excellent job on it at both level. At HBCU level, with Jackson State. He's brought a lot of attention to that program, a lot of attention to the HBCU league, and he took it and his, took his game to Colorado. For, you know, numerous reasons, and I think one of the things that we, you know we need to look at is why wasn't Jackson State able to just keep him in their fold? That was that's the biggest, I think, for me. Why, why is that? Why didn't that happen?
Speaker 1:Maybe you need to kind of get more folks who may be familiar with it, but still, maybe a little bit of context of what happened. So Deion Sanders is recruited by Jackson State. Jackson State is an HBCU that I don't know. Do you know the numbers of like Jackson State's wins or like what sector of football are they even in? Because I know, like with Alabama, they are. Nick Saban works towards championships, okay, national championships. I am familiar with HBCU football as not being championship league. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, you play the game to win championships, whether you're playing little league or at any level, you play the win championships. I think with HBCUs, you know there's no secret, they're underfunded. And so comparison to like a Power Five school Power Five schools, or the Alabama's, the Florida's, the big schools, the PWI, predominantly white institutions, or they have tons of resources, tons of facilities. So most folks, most athletes, are prone to go to those Power Five schools, the NFL recruits from those Power Five schools.
Speaker 2:Hbcus are, like you know, although it's a phenomenal league and it's talented players in that league too, but they don't get the attention, they don't have the facility, they don't have the necessarily the coaches as the same caliber as those Power Five teams. And so what D-Yam was doing, he was saying, like we need to compete, we don't want to be just the other league, we want to be a part of the bigger picture so our kids can get the same opportunity as those kids at the Power Five. This league can generate the same revenue as those Power Five conferences. And so when he came in, that was his stance, that's why he came.
Speaker 1:So D-Yam joins Jackson State with the hopes of bringing them up to national championship level? Yes, so he gets there and from what I understand was that he gets there and he gave them a time period to which you know he would start actually, you know, hoping that they could reach that level. From what I understand and you all, anytime we talk we're coming from like resources, like reliable resources, so you can look at this up for yourself. But he gives an interview with ESPN and there's this question of well, what's the debate? So, okay, you coach for Jackson State and then you transfer to Colorado. Coaches do that all the time. Coaches do that all the time. I've seen games that were lost and then, like, the coaches fired the next day or he resigns the next day. So coaches leave schools all the time. It's not a forever in some situation.
Speaker 1:So the issue is that he gave the program a span of three years with hopes that it could go a little bit longer, and in an interview that he did with CNN, he even talks about giving up some of his income or some of his portion of his money to help the school. So, to help the school meaning with programming, probably some facility repairs, because you can't practice on a field that isn't up to par. So he's trying to put the resources in, but somewhere in there something happens and he leaves. Now, depending on what interview you're reading, d'yan Sander says he completed the job. He said I came, I talked to them, I got them on a plan. Coaches leave all the time, so you all should be set up and good to go. And then the caveat to that is that when he left, he took quite a few of the recruits that he had with him, or rather, they went with him. He didn't take anybody, but they chose to go with him. Is that right so far?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. He brought them and they went with them. They follow in him.
Speaker 1:Right, right, right right. So they leave with him and now they're at Colorado and Colorado, from what Dr Greg Carr is saying, has 2% black population, especially on a football team, and they start charging seats and merchandise and, within these past couple of games, able to generate an income of over $600,000, probably the most that they've seen in a long time. Because once again D'Yan Sanders is prime time. Like you come to see him not just for the team, but you know he's a celebrity, so you're coming for the celebrity and you're coming for the sport, so it's a win-win for Colorado. So why is Jackson State so mad?
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, it's football and it's entertainment, and so, you know, I was hoping that D'Yan would have stayed at Jackson State. I have a friend of mine. He is a crazy Colorado Buffalo's fan and he's really feeling this situation now, and for me I was hoping that he stayed. On the whole principle side of things, it's like, yeah, make that situation great and then we're going to go to the next level, we're going to have a good time, all of that. But at the end of the day, it's about everybody got a hold up there in the contract. So D'Yan came in and said I'm going to do this, this, this, this and this.
Speaker 2:He did that HBCUs or the president of Jackson State, had to do his part too. So if what D'Yan's problem was is like they didn't have the facilities, they didn't have the funding, then they weren't getting paid the way they should have been getting paid. What happened is those other people were getting tons of money from these big time classics and they were generating revenue in these venues, and everybody wasn't making money, but the universities. He had a problem with that. He took taking the show on the road, doing the thing, getting the buzz up that they need bringing the people in. Got people donating yes, he donated his fund and he got other people to donate too.
Speaker 2:So what more do you want to do? You have to hold up your end of the bargain. It was the university chore. They had three years to get it done. So it's like we appreciate what you're doing. We see what you're doing. We're going to keep you here. We're going to bring the alumni together. We're going to rally the city around our program, where we're going to keep you at here. We're going to get you what you need to be successful. If you didn't do that, you think that man is going to stay there and be unsuccessful and continue to do what he does and still have the same being, the same situation, and no one's committed to making those changes. No, he's like. No, I'm done. I did what I said I was going to do and now I'm moving on to something else.
Speaker 1:But does that make him so? He had alumni from Mississippi College calling him a sellout for leaving a historically black college to go to a predominantly black college. I mean white college, not black, because if he did go to a black college this wouldn't even be a conversation. But he left JSU to go to Colorado State, which, or Colorado which, is predominantly white. It's a predominantly white state, so does that make him a sellout? Just because JSU, whether they lived up to the expectations or followed what he was saying or not, doesn't make him a sellout for going towards a different opportunity, possibly more pay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it is money is money. They offer him a bag and he probably went for it, but it was other things that were involved in the situation other than money. The man has money, he has endorsement, he has tons of ways to make money. People are upset with him because they feel like he's taking money from the HBCUs and opportunity from the HBCUs and going to Colorado. That man has two sons who are playing on that team.
Speaker 2:Now, as a parent, would you do what's best for your kids? At the end of the day, are you going to put your kids in the best situation so they can be successful? Now his kids are very talented. They can be successful at any level. He has the power in the league to be able to put them in a position where they can go to the NFL.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't all about his kids. He took other kids too, because if it was about his kids then he would have left those other kids there. He brought the staff his staff with him, which is 75% black, I think, and he brought a group of kids to do the job with him that he's been coaching throughout their whole life. So JSU wouldn't even have those kids if it wasn't for Dion. So it's not like he's taking anything from them, it's like he's providing opportunity. So it's a double-edged sword. So that's what he went with. And now HBCUs are getting attention. Now they get attention, but they don't get the attention that Dion brought to the university because it's not him. He's a celebrity, he has resources.
Speaker 1:Right. So what I see here is that Sanders was coaching as he was coaching at JSU. He created a record of 26-5, and they won the Southwestern Athletic Conference Championship over Southern University. So he's never had any collegiate coaching experience. He previously had been the offensive coordinator at Trinity Christian School, which was a private school in Dallas. So he did bring exposure to Jackson State and he could have gone anywhere. He could have gone anywhere. I'm surprised that Nick Saban probably didn't call him and say, hey, come work with me. But he chose Jackson State.
Speaker 1:And so we know that HBCUs right now are under. They're really struggling financially right now. I mean Biden just put out a call for a lot of Southern states to say, hey, you know, you all need to pay, provide funding to the disparities of the land grant to HBCUs. So that's 16 states that he pulled this call out for, and I'm sure it's not just for the agricultural programs. Hbcus have been underfunded for a long time but there is a certain level of like what is that? Not dependency, but there is a certain level of dedication that HBCU's alumni have. Like my dad he graduated from Morehouse my cousin, two of my cousins and an uncle graduated from Morehouse. So I have Morehouse men. My aunt went to Clark, my mama went to Clark, my son is thinking about going to Clark, so HBCU life runs in my family. I didn't go to HBCU just because I wanted to experience something different. So I went to a predominantly mixed school in Birmingham, alabama, called UAB. So it was very diverse.
Speaker 1:But I do understand, like the dedication and the commitment you basically become family when it comes to HBCU school and becoming alumni. But while that is all well and good, the commitment or the funding is a lot of times lacking in HBCU's Not saying at all. But we do understand that HBCU's are underfunded. Alumni, though they love their school, don't necessarily put as much money into the school as you would see with like a University of Minnesota or Colorado or even a U of A. Those alumni put millions and we can go into, like the economic differences between alumni at University of Minnesota versus alumni at Clark College. So there's a difference. There's a difference in funding, there's a difference in the ways the schools are held up or even just the show of a school. When I took my son to the University of Minnesota on the tour, alumni spared no expense for those students I mean we're talking about like they had like a what's that? A Starbucks. Inside the dorm there was a fireplace. They had leather chairs by the fireplace in the With wood grain wheels no.
Speaker 1:What'd you say?
Speaker 2:With wood grain panels.
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure I said wood grain wheels. I was about to say wheels Wood grain panels Like. But no, I mean.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about no right.
Speaker 1:But no like, when you went there it did not feel like a college and it really felt homely. It felt like there were so many resources they tried to make it as comfortable as possible for those children to stay and learn. Okay, now that comes with money and resources. So when we think about Deon transferring from Jackson to Colorado, the resources and I'm not even talking about just the architecture of the school and the facilities, because I'm sure you need like state of the art facilities to help train those guys you need a great field, you need stadium space, staff Part I mean. So I'm not talking about the aesthetics of it, we're really talking about money. Could Jackson?
Speaker 2:Well, could Jackson? Oh, sorry Could.
Speaker 1:Jackson pay Deon Sanders what he was worth versus Colorado.
Speaker 2:Well, could they at least have a vision for where they should go so they can get the money that they need? Because one of the things is like here's the piece that a lot of those Power Five the Alabama's, the Florida's, the Oregon's of the world they get revenue from being on TV. And so those television revenue like I, get that HBC use underfunded. But you can't sit up and scream I'm underfunded, I'm underfunded, I'm underfunded and you're continuously doing the same thing year in and year out to help that maintains to be underfunded. Now I don't know everything about what everyone has tried, but I know football does bring an athletic does bring revenue. If you can get folks on national television because they pay the university when a football team qualifies for a national championship and they play in that series, the school gets funding for that too. So it's revenue streams that are going untapped into that. Deon was like no, we got to change that. And I think when we talk about like HBC use, we get into this touchy feely thing oh it's just have you know.
Speaker 2:They serve historical black students and they have this big rich history. Yes, that'll never be taken away, we'll always have that. But the piece is, we live in America and they cause money to do things. It costs money to compete. You have to compete in order to be able to be a viable entity. You got to compete on the field, you got to compete on many levels and if you don't, then you can't know why you. I don't understand what the whole complaint for what he's trying to do is. Help them complete, compete and be a different and do things different.
Speaker 1:I don't know. So one thing that this report says in for CNN says that it really, instead of the three years, he really needed to give it 10 years. So whatever he was trying to accomplish, you know whether it was bringing attention, increasing revenue and just really making them. You know the stars and you know the showstoppers of football. For HBCUs three years wasn't enough. And when it comes to anything with HBCUs, you know, like I said, I'm from Birmingham, so we have the Magic City Classic. Where's Alabama State, alabama A&M, who go off, and they face off each other every year in October Like it's a whole week long, but who's getting paid for that?
Speaker 1:Who's getting paid? It's a party.
Speaker 2:Yes, they are getting paid. People are making money. You don't put together an event to not get paid the people who are running the venues.
Speaker 1:Again, Well, sure yeah, the people who are people in that town, sure yeah. When you come to Birmingham, you know you're going to, you know the clubs, you're eating at the restaurants, you know you're partaking in the city. So but here's the other thing to that too. I don't know how many people are coming out of town to join that classic game, because a lot of times the classic, especially the festivities throughout the city, are locals. It's people.
Speaker 2:If Jackson State is coming to the classic, people are coming out of town. Celebrities are coming into that town too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Maybe not, but we're talking about. We're not talking about just a few. I mean because whenever we have these, whenever we have the classic, you never hear about really major people coming in you. Just it's different, it's really different.
Speaker 1:You know, a classic is one big old party for HBCUs and black folks and it feels like a family, but it doesn't get the national attention. But nevertheless, hbcu life in football is very different than your Colorado football, okay, and so the argument is that he didn't give him enough time and he didn't show any loyalty. So pretty much I'm not going to say it. But I'm going to say it Did Deion Sanders sell out? No-transcript.
Speaker 2:No, I think it because we have to change that narrative. So in a traditional narrative, if we look at things like loyalty and commitment to the black community, I think it's things that we don't see that Dion has done and he continues to do to support the HBC. The question is, can you be loyal to somebody and still be and get the resources you need to support your family and support other kids in the community? You know he knows the pathway to get to NFL and help these kids get to a higher level and he doesn't have. The kids don't have 10 years, I'm not going to. If you recruit me as an athlete and say, well, you come to this school, we'll see if you can, we can get you to the NFL in about 10 years. Kids want to go here and now I want to go to the league. Getting those kids to school is another. That's another missed opportunity. If they would have put in the work and fast track a lot of things and God had a clarification, then those kids who played on that team would have been recruited at the NFL level and then Dion and they would have had the passion to contribute back. It was a. I believe it was a missed missed opportunity. But at the same time he still promotes HBC use. He's always talking about HBC use. He hasn't abandoned them, he hasn't forgot about them.
Speaker 2:He didn't leave that situation better. He prayed on it and he did what he needed to do. So I was like that's what it is, man. And then if you want to not have something like that happen again, then you get your crap together. I mean, you get yourself together so you can position yourself to be able to sustain someone of that caliber. And Dion ain't the only NFL coach or not player that's in the HBC use system. He's the only player that has stepped it up and said this is what we're going to do to elevate programs. And he came in with a business mindset and brought resources to the situation. Those other players is other player, eddie George is out there. He played with the Houston order or this great player, but he didn't necessarily, did not necessarily come at it the way Dion came. So he brought.
Speaker 1:So, ok, you get Dion Sanders. Why are you getting Dion Sanders in the first place? You're getting Dion Sanders to help build a brand, help with, recruit and also amplify this HBCU to the mainstream. Now let's let's be very clear. Jackson State has had 94 players drafted into the NFL between 1961 and 2002. See, I did a little research, y'all. I ain't that hey, that behind. But so we're not saying that HBCUs don't produce NFL or even just that NFL you know worldwide, or successful, you know citizens of this beautiful country. We're not going to say that because HBCUs have produced massive amount of wonderful folks, and I know that for sure because my dad is one of them. So let's not take away that HBCUs do create scientists and engineers and also football players. But the goal was, to my understanding you correct me if I'm wrong was bring Dion Sanders to give it that boost that it hadn't had before. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but. But at the same time we're complaining about HBCUs are underfunded. And you said how many NFL players? 94.
Speaker 1:94. 94 players drafted into the NFL from Jackson State between 1961 and 2002. That's quite a bit.
Speaker 2:OK, so if that school is struggling and you have 94 alum that you know in all the, out of those 94 players you know it's probably on the handful that were superstars and made millions, of dollars.
Speaker 2:Out of those 94 players, how many have contributed to the university? Because if you got 94 players who are millionaires and they consistently contribute to the university, then Jackson State shouldn't be hurting for nothing because they have the alumni support. And so that's that's what I'm saying. That's what Dion was saying is like he didn't even have the alumni support.
Speaker 1:So let me.
Speaker 2:So he had to do it Bring.
Speaker 1:OK. So Shannon, Shannon Sharp, all the famer and also HBCU alumni said that nobody. Dion Sanders is something that nobody was doing before, which was bringing attention to HBCUs. Now they're on television and that's because of him. So he helped to create the blueprint and I think that's always. A good piece is that if you have somebody that can start you out, you can carry the baton. I'm wondering what did he do for them? How my mom always said leave when you leave a space, make sure you left it better than when you came. I would dare to say that Dion Sanders left JSU better than when he came.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So I'm not going to say he's a sellout. But what I know, I'm not going to say he's a sellout because going towards different opportunities, I don't know why we have this mentality that if you don't stick around for the struggle or you don't stick around that you're a sellout. But instead of looking at it like at least he came and participated, he gave three years some of his income, publicity, notoriety, recruiting. I mean he gave JSU something that they didn't have before. And if anybody says, well, they could have had it. Well, yeah, you could have had it, but you didn't have it. You didn't have it. Oh, we didn't need him. Okay, maybe you didn't need him, but something about him, you wanted to help build your program. So I don't have any. I haven't seen any reports saying that when he left, he left them in shambles. It's really more about you him going, him leaving a predominantly black school to go to a predominantly white school. You're a sellout.
Speaker 2:Exactly. But see, that's the taboo stuff. Like that, I mean, I think that becomes a barrier and we start to, you know, like someone who is, has committed to the process and, you know, got things going. And then he set the stage for you to elevate yourself. And if you don't elevate yourself, it's like that whole adage If you teach, you, give a person fish, they'll eat for it, but if you teach them how to fish, they'll eat for a lifetime. Well, if the person don't want to learn how to fish, they just want to eat, then they they're not going to be able to sustain over time. And so I think the unsanders, what he did, was I'm trying to teach you how to fish and you don't want to learn.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to take the fish and my skills to somewhere else and get that other opportunity.
Speaker 1:Where he left some fish, I mean he left a couple, he left some mullets to La Pia, right I about to say he ain't take, he ain't take all the fish. I mean, he gave them the ride, he gave them the bait, he gave them the outline. So he, I mean you teach a man how to fish. Really, if you lay some, lay it out for folks, you can build on what he gave them or what he gave you, right? So it's not necessarily that he took all his resources with him. He left them with something.
Speaker 1:Now can they execute without him? Can they pull it to the finish line without him? Or were they expecting him to fish with them the whole time, because you're supposed to teach and then go on about your business, so that you could be self-sufficient? So I wonder you know what did he lay out? That even though he didn't stay, you know, 10 years or anything, he was still able to give some type of foundation for them to keep going with the work, give them the baton. Now I want to just kind of highlight and point out and said you kind of, you know, talk around this too. How many black coaches, black head coaches, are in these big league schools? Not too many. How many? Only a handful, was a handful, like five-fold.
Speaker 2:Maybe about four or five, I don't know. I mean, the Division One football is. You know like league is very big. You know you have several levels to it, but the Power Five schools, I'm guessing I would say a handful, I don't know, it's probably about the five that I can name off.
Speaker 1:But you can confidently say that out of what you call it the Power Five, the big five, the league five schools are predominantly led by white head coaches. Okay, yes, I mean the fact that we even have to kind of guess whether you know whether it's a majority white, majority black. We already see that there is a disparity there. So would it be fair to say that Deion Sanders going to Colorado is actually breaking that racial divide in a big head coach for a big league school?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. He comes in with a different mentality of any head coach, because usually it's like follow the system, you know, be quiet and then just kind of slowly work into the culture. Deion brought the culture, so that's a totally different. They're dealing with a totally different beast. He's coming out. He's coming out his authentic self. He's not holding back anything, he's dancing, he's got the shades on, he's up front, he ain't trying to hide.
Speaker 2:So most folks try to stay small and stay humble and don't want to piss, draw too much attention to themselves. But Deion's like I want that attention, I want all the smoke. So that's a first time that, since I was thinking about this the other day, he comes with the Muhammad Ali swag. He's talking to talk, he walking to walk, he's saying what he needs to say and he's out there. He's putting it out there. This is a historical moment for him and his family and for our community. But we have to grow and be supportive and not be so upset because that situation at Jackson State did not work out. It's more people who need to be held accountable for the conditions of those universities and their financial state. Deion just came to try to support them. He's a small piece to this bigger issue. Get a man to break. He's driven by the Lord. If you're into that, he's definitely religious.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that you know I don't see anything wrong with what he did. I think you know everybody has a season. I think that he played his role for three years there at JSU and did what he could. I don't know if there was any pushback and I don't know if they were moving with the changes fast, because I would not imagine that if he had laid out a plan for them and they were actually following that, he would have left. I don't believe that. I don't believe that if they were really following his plan because he knows how to draw crowds you know, when you come from the NFL, you already work on the mainstream level.
Speaker 1:So you see the marketing, you see the practice, you see, like, the NFL is the top tier of sports. There's no more football after that. Once you hit NFL, that's it. So he's already been there to mainstream. So when you take mainstream showmanship and all of that to the collegiate level, you're bringing a top quality experience that they have not seen before. Yeah, your players might have gotten recruited for the NFL, but how many of them came back to actually help teach the sport back at their state or be a mentor back at the state, right? So here you got Dionstress who brings this top tier performance and understanding of the business, because I know the NFL is a billion dollar business. So if anything, if your school is struggling and you have a billion dollar businessman that has been there, played it, has talked to the coaches, understands it is retired out of it.
Speaker 1:I would not imagine he would have left if they were following everything to a T to what he was saying. But I wonder if he took them because he is prime time and he is so flashy and he does dream big and does big things. I wonder if it was too much, too fast, too soon for Jackson State. I wonder if there were feelings of like selling out, you know, because Jackson State and Tuskegee and all those schools, they're small, they're intimate, they, you know, is family. It reminds me of like.
Speaker 1:When I went to high school at Ramsey in Birmingham, I had a class of like 130 students. It was small, it was intimate, it was close, so we knew each other, as opposed to like a school in Hoover that was predominantly white, that had over like 500, 600 students. So I wonder if his vision was too big for them, because sometimes that happens where you, you know, you can see the greatness in folks, but if they don't see it in themselves, then they're going to hide, they're going to run away. Some people don't want all of that flash. It sounded good until he got there, and then I'm thinking the changes he wanted to make may probably made them feel like he was turning them into something that they really weren't. I'm just wondering.
Speaker 2:That might be true, but I think here's another wrinkle dot If I'm the governor of Mississippi and the mayor of Jackson Mississippi, I'm going to put resources toward that university because it's bringing he's brought money into the state and into the city. So that's why I was saying it's like it's so much. Yes, I agree with you 100%. The visionary piece can be very scary.
Speaker 2:You know these people who have bigger visions like me. It's huge. You know we see 10 years ahead of time and everybody else still stuck in the last 10 years that we've already been through. But at the same time, dollars of dollars if this person has the numbers, speak for itself. He has brought some significant amount of money into that state that needs it very bad, like the state needs it back. He's brought a significant amount of attention and money to Jackson, the city of Jackson. He got to be able to make. They have to be able to commit to keeping that going. It's like having a Fortune 500 company like Amazon in Jackson. They're employing everybody, bringing, paying taxes, doing all this other stuff and bringing revenue to the state and then you just decide like, hey, we're not going to, we're going to increase your taxes and we're not going to help support you being in the state.
Speaker 2:Amazon going to pack their stuff up and leave. But what is so different about what Deion did versus an Amazon or a big corporation? If you're thinking business mindset now don't go. If you go to the values thing, then that's going to be a whole, nother different beast. But business wise, what did he do? Different than any other organization? That government and all the city does not support what they're doing and be a part of that vision. They move. That's what he did. He moved because this is not. It's about values, but it's also about business.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, it's about business.
Speaker 2:It's about business and that's why we can't get all confused and crazy, all up in our feelings. But at the end of the day, those people of color in that state and at that university has a responsibility too. And it doesn't fall all on Deion, it doesn't. It would be crazy to put that on one person when all of these people are involved in that situation.
Speaker 1:Right, right. And you know, deion said in an interview with the Pivot podcast where he had to just kind of ask himself about Jackson State, do they even want to get there? And he had to ask himself like an honest question himself, them, the staff, and he even talked about as a football coach, making $60,000, $50,000 to $60,000. And he says I don't mean to demean anybody that does make that, but there are certain levels that you're reaching your life where you have to put a stamp on your worth. And I'm thinking not only did they not really follow what he was probably trying to do, but they couldn't pay him, they couldn't compensate him the way he really deserved to be compensated. And that might have been the real issue.
Speaker 1:If I'm telling you, you know, $70,000 and I'm just throwing it up $70,000 is not sustainable for me Because, yes, I am a celebrity NFL star, I have a certain lifestyle that I have to show and live and, yes, I have these endorsements. But income is income at the end of the day. I don't care who you are, nobody, I don't care how far you get up in the business world, you never stop trying to generate money. No gates in them. Don't stop trying to generate money. That will always be so. If you're trying to give me $80,000, but I'm really worth $500,000 and you're telling me you can't pay that, well, okay, here's a trajectory for us to get there. Are you willing to do it? If you're not hearing yes to that, something's got to change, and I wonder what his? I would love to see the numbers of what his contract is with Colorado.
Speaker 2:I would. Oh yeah, I know, I know he's catching up Baby.
Speaker 1:I know they paid a grip for that. Oh, you want what Say less? Got you Say less.
Speaker 2:Got you In my pocket. You want me to pull it out my pocket right now?
Speaker 1:I don't think Colorado is bad, is a bad off school either. So they aren't coming with the drippings of like residual income or funding. They already have funding. We're just going to boost funding. So what did Dr Carr say? Like they started charging $10 a seat or something. What were they charging?
Speaker 2:Oh, they were charging. I think the seat at Colorado was like a hundred. You can get something like a hundred dollars when they were losing or less, and now the tickets are like $400 to get up in there. You got paid Because you got Lil Wayne. He done brought Lil Wayne up in the piece. He got there by all of his celebrities. You know they follow the trends and they believe in what he's doing. So I mean, that's it, man, and when you think about it you have to. It's just so many.
Speaker 2:This is a complex problem, but first and foremost, I think it's just the mindset, a shift in mindset, and we talk about this all the time, even in our field. It's like, although the work in serving the black community is great, but what we need is infrastructure and resources. We need financial resources to build infrastructure. If we don't, then we're just doing real warm and loving work and we're fulfilled with it and the community has benefited from it. But for long term success we need resources, that's financial resources, so we can build infrastructure to support our interests, and that's it. I mean the bottom line. That's what it is, dawg yeah no, I totally agree with you.
Speaker 1:Like yes, several HBCU schools right now are underfunded and, like I said, the Biden administration has called for those states to properly fund those programs that our community, our schools, are supposed to be serving. I mean just even that conversation about like 16 schools, 16 HBCU schools, are not being properly compensated Like that, to me, is crazy. You don't hear of any white school saying they're not being properly compensated. If anything, you hear about the white schools and the folks coming to take the money.
Speaker 2:You know what the interesting is to look at the number of. How much money did Trump contribute to the HBCUs, compared to the number of how much money Biden administration contributed to the HBCUs.
Speaker 1:That's not going to be an interesting.
Speaker 4:Oh yes, it is, I mean I. Why would that?
Speaker 1:be, interesting. You know that man didn't give any, come on now, all right, I mean, Do the math.
Speaker 2:You like the research, do that research, I will.
Speaker 1:I will definitely do the research, but here's I don't care whether it is Trump, obama, nixon himself the fact that 16 HBCU schools are having to beg for their money, that is a problem. So, loyalty versus sustainability.
Speaker 2:Oh, are you ducking the taboo? What you heard, what I said, I mean like, do the math. I mean that's great, let's get gritty with it.
Speaker 1:We ain't got to do the math if Biden is already calling for these schools to get their money. Like the math is already there. The math is that they don't have enough to create sustainability or the programs or even have the up-to-date resources that they need. They need to look at numbers. We've got enough numbers. You just? I mean some of these campuses you can go look at and I forget what school it was, but the students were talking about the conditions of the dorms. Is that one of the HBCU schools? They were talking about the conditions of the dorms, so we don't have to. I mean, I'll do the numbers, but it's obvious that schools don't get funded or don't have alumni support or resources like your predominantly white schools. Alabama does not compare. I love Howard, but Alabama and Howard don't compare, Right or wrong?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, well, howard is one of the elite HBCU.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Their alum really contributes and it is very sustainable. Yes, and they need extra funding. Yes, but they have the alumni who control it?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely. But once again, the comparison. I bet if we matched dollar for dollar on these schools it wouldn't compare. It wouldn't compare. But nevertheless, dion, I think you did what you could, and business-minded does not always lead to loyalty, but loyalty does not mean you can't be business-minded either, so both can play in the same arena. But I don't think Dion did anything wrong. I think he set them up better than where they were before, and now he has an opportunity. He is still a pioneer in a path that hasn't really been crossed and that's becoming one of the main head coaches for predominantly white schools. So he is still and, oh my gosh, I hope Colorado does win whatever championship. I hope they do, and here's why Because if they do, then I think it will definitely show that he has a model that, if you follow it, does lead to a path of success.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So I do hope that he does win. I actually saw, I don't know it was like a take five or something, but it was basically Dion talking to the team and showing the coaching process and stuff like that, and I mean he's on those boys' heads and he's on the team's heads and he was like we. He was like something that you can be proud of today Name, something that you're not going to be mediocre at. So he's changing the mentality. He's changing the way they talk about themselves. He's changing the way in which they see themselves as winners. I think he did the same thing for Jackson State, but a few factors. They probably weren't ready for the changes and the money just wasn't what it should have been when you have such a top tier performer.
Speaker 2:There you go. I mean I think absolutely. I mean this was a great conversation and I'm loving, like you know, the complexity of that. And, by the way, I'm wrong, Biden did propose like a higher billion dollars to ACBC.
Speaker 1:I said propose Now Donald.
Speaker 2:Trump has given and under his administration he gave like 250 million, and to that that you, those universities too. So propose versus given. I mean that's a whole nother thing and that's just a quick little little shot I got from the age from the recruiter and APA Associated Press. So those are my credible resources.
Speaker 1:So yeah, but you know what Are you wait a minute. I think it goes back to a bigger conversation. Are you a Trump supporter?
Speaker 2:Well, you know what I need a new host.
Speaker 1:No, I need a new host who wants to come help me.
Speaker 2:You know what? That's my business. No, I'm not a Trump supporter but I also. The truth is the truth. If you're going to complain about somebody who's not contributing to the HBCUs, if one president does, then that's. That's a whole, nother different story. Now, that's just one part of the whole. The whole picture, my values picture so contributing to the HBCUs as good. But there's other things involved too that I won't necessarily agree with.
Speaker 1:So I'm not swinging, I'm not going that way.
Speaker 2:Everybody need to be held accountable. Republicans and Democrat independence me, you, your cousin and all these other people who's standing by here who can contribute to the HBCU Do like Bernie Sanders let's start a $3 fund. I'm not a person in the community. Let's do a $3 fund. And I'm going to wrap it up because I see those dog on fingers rolling.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right Cause we can talk about this all day, but ultimately, ultimately, it's about the dollar, dollar bill, and and and I'm not going to say that's Dion it's all about money. I'm not going to say that I don't get that impression from him. Let's be clear you will pay him, but you will pay him for quality and he's going to come in and he's going to do his best and he's going to do his damnedest to give you everything you need to get there, because it's at the end of the day. He can get paid millions of dollars, but if he doesn't win, he's a winner first, before he's prime time.
Speaker 2:Well, my take on it is that Asia is once you have something, you need to secure it. If you know you got the talent, people are after what you got. If you got something good, somebody's going to pay to get it. And so, as as folks in the community, we are always saying we are, we want to value quality services that our black folks have to offer, but Dion offered quality and broad resources. It is up to us as a community, as as a city or whatever is up to us to make things work. And so far as funding HBC use, if we care about it, then we need to support it and we need to quit asking people to support our interests. We can ask, but if we come to the table with something to support those universities that's important, If you can buy those new Jordans and support Balenciago and all these other labels and go to all these other things, I'm pretty sure you can come up with $20 a month to give the HBC use. Oh boy, Now we're talking about the black.
Speaker 1:now we're talking about the black dollar and how we spend it.
Speaker 2:Okay, Got to.
Speaker 1:All right, all right y'all. This was great. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. Let us know what you think, leave your comments and I don't even know where the box is going to be, but I'm going to say leave your comments in the box below or wherever you see it on our page, and just let us know what are your thoughts. Do you think Dion Sanders was a sellout? Yes or no? Why or why not?
Speaker 2:I mean dollar dollar bill. I would challenge everybody to Google doctor's doctor Asia's page and go up there and put our own blasts and have her have a conversation about it.
Speaker 1:But wait a minute, no, Come on now. Look, look, that is what you want, okay, you can get me to. I mean, I'm from there you can look me up.
Speaker 2:Look my name up. Bring the noise, because I'm willing to bring it. Hit me up on the Instagram, that's right.
Speaker 1:And you all, and you all can follow me at tiktok. And what's that Instagram? Yeah, at doctor, doctor Asia LPCC, doctor Asia LPCC. So let me say, everybody know, me like Contra Wayne.
Speaker 2:You say everybody know me. You can find me on Instagram at Cedric Wothers 3. I'm also on Facebook and don't be you know that kind of set to privacy. But you go to my Instagram page. You can get at me on that. Inbox me, let me know what you, what you think.
Speaker 1:Right, sorry y'all, let me do that again. You can find me on Instagram at doctor Asia D on the LPCC. That's doctor Asia D on the LPCC. See, look, when you are used to just Facebook and you got to give all these platforms for your contacting handles and stuff, oh, my goodness, I feel old, but we're not going to go there. So, tiktok Instagram doctor Asia D on the King, lpcc. You'll find me there, along with an array of meditation videos. If you're looking for someone, that station. So, everybody, be good to yourselves and each other. Peace out.
Speaker 2:Peace, yeah.