In this episode, Dr. Aja and Cedric Weatherspoon delve into the complex narrative surrounding the murder of iconic rapper Tupac Shakur. They begin by discussing the recent arrest of Keffe D, the uncle of Orlando Anderson, a key figure in the events leading to Tupac's murder. This arrest, which comes decades after the crime, raises questions about why it took so long for authorities to make a move. Cedric raises concerns about the legal basis for charging Keefe D, as he didn't pull the trigger but is being held on conspiracy charges.
The hosts also examine the deeper context of Tupac's life and the evolution of hip-hop during that era. They explore how Tupac, born to parents involved in the Black Panther Party, initially had no gang affiliations and was a talented actor, rapper, and producer. However, his association with Death Row Records and its co-founder, Suge Knight, led him down a different path. They discuss how Tupac's artistic trajectory shifted dramatically after joining Death Row, culminating in a feud with Notorious B.I.G. and East Coast-West Coast tensions.
The conversation touches on the blurred lines between hip-hop culture and gang life during this period and the broader impact of this narrative on the portrayal of Black men and violence in media. Dr. Aja emphasizes the importance of discernment and critical thinking when consuming narratives in the media. The hosts ultimately reflect on the tragedy of Tupac's untimely death and the consequences of his associations, highlighting the need to remember him as a rapper and a multifaceted artist whose life was tragically cut short.
Resource:
FOX NEWS 26 September 29, 2023
Houston area news, weather, traffic, sports, and breaking news from FOX 26 Houston. Watch news and local programming daily from KRIV.
https://youtu.be/2di289mODpQ?si=923nQqMJMrrZiwHC
In this episode, Dr. Aja and Cedric Weatherspoon delve into the complex narrative surrounding the murder of iconic rapper Tupac Shakur. They begin by discussing the recent arrest of Keffe D, the uncle of Orlando Anderson, a key figure in the events leading to Tupac's murder. This arrest, which comes decades after the crime, raises questions about why it took so long for authorities to make a move. Cedric raises concerns about the legal basis for charging Keefe D, as he didn't pull the trigger but is being held on conspiracy charges.
The hosts also examine the deeper context of Tupac's life and the evolution of hip-hop during that era. They explore how Tupac, born to parents involved in the Black Panther Party, initially had no gang affiliations and was a talented actor, rapper, and producer. However, his association with Death Row Records and its co-founder, Suge Knight, led him down a different path. They discuss how Tupac's artistic trajectory shifted dramatically after joining Death Row, culminating in a feud with Notorious B.I.G. and East Coast-West Coast tensions.
The conversation touches on the blurred lines between hip-hop culture and gang life during this period and the broader impact of this narrative on the portrayal of Black men and violence in media. Dr. Aja emphasizes the importance of discernment and critical thinking when consuming narratives in the media. The hosts ultimately reflect on the tragedy of Tupac's untimely death and the consequences of his associations, highlighting the need to remember him as a rapper and a multifaceted artist whose life was tragically cut short.
Resource:
FOX NEWS 26 September 29, 2023
Houston area news, weather, traffic, sports, and breaking news from FOX 26 Houston. Watch news and local programming daily from KRIV.
https://youtu.be/2di289mODpQ?si=923nQqMJMrrZiwHC
What's up everybody? Dr Asia King.
Speaker 2:And I'm Cedric Wothersmo.
Speaker 1:And we are your host for the colors of our culture, a podcast where we talk about raw and rugged conversations. We dive into the deep crevices of the human experiences so that we can talk and express ourselves without any barriers. We have conversations that go beyond what you are used to, so get ready, buckle up, for some deep, funny, maybe some uncomfortable conversations, but, most importantly, authentic and real. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:Let's get it.
Speaker 1:Good morning everybody. Hey Ced, how are you?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm doing wonderful. How are you doing?
Speaker 1:All right, it's raining outside, but it's a good rain. It means the transition from summer to fall and all things are new for the new season. But, yeah, it's a little cold outside. We're about to get into the cold. Minnesota cold is a little different than the rest of the country's cold, so embrace it for that, but embrace for some interesting news this week. I'm not going to say it's exciting. I would say it's long overdue. We should already been here, I don't. Okay, let's just jump into it. They have arrested Tupac's killer. Okay, so for those of you who do not know, tupac Shakur was a famous rapper Early 90s, late 80s. He was murdered in 1996 by, I would say, a group of people.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Tupac's murder is was infamous. This was part of the East Coast West Coast beef that was going on between him and Biggie and other rappers and there there is a huge history during this period of time in rap and hip hop. So we can't get into all of it. You could definitely look it up yourself. But you know Tupac's murder was infamous. You know he got shot in the car with Shug Knight in what was that? Las Vegas, yes, and then after a fight with Mike Tyson it was a Mike Tyson fight and so there's video footage of Tupac and Shug Knight and a couple of his friends jumping off rival gang member Orlando His name was Orlando and you see Tupac and Shug just kind of leave in the hotel, you know, after they just jumped this guy by the elevator and you all can go into CNN or some credible source in here and see the actual events that transpired between Tupac and his crew and a rival gang of Orlando. So okay, so they jumped Orlando by the elevator, they get in the car, they dash out to Pock and should Keith E D I think his name, I call him Keith D, keith D is part of Orlando's gang, which was who was it? It was a blood, it was a crypt. Okay, so it was the crypts. And so Orlando supposedly goes and gets his uncle, who was Keith D, and they gather some folks and they go looking for Tupac and Shug, find Tupac and Shug at a light and then they shoot him up.
Speaker 1:Now, that was back in 1996. Okay, and just just a side note, a year later notorious B I G is also murdered, and you know they still haven't found his killer. But you know the hip hop rivalry at that time was that two famous and beautiful rappers were taken away from this life far too soon. Over nonsense. It just got out of control. But to Pock's murder, according to the police, had nothing to do with East Coast West Coast beef. It was primarily due to gang affiliation and gang activity and a beatdown which resulted in to Pock's murder. So okay, all of that happens in 1996. We go years, we go decades, we go decades. Not knowing to to Pock's murderer, shug ultimately ends up in prison because he ended up murdering somebody by running them over in a car, and so now he's currently in prison for quite a bit of time. But while all of this is happening, you have Keith D, who is the uncle, or of Orlando, the boy who was jumped at the elevator.
Speaker 2:Orlando Anderson.
Speaker 1:Orlando Anderson. He goes on this tour. Well, yeah, no, like he writes a memoir. He goes on Vlad TV. He gives out quite a few interviews. Basically he's telling all, and his testimony to these outlets is that he and his crew were part of the murder of two pups. Now he doesn't necessarily implicate himself as pulling the trigger, but he does say that he's in the car with three other guys, with Orlando being one of them, and two other members of the gang are in the car with them, and so they, he notes, and you can read this in his memoir, you can go to Vlad TV. He notes that he kind of instructs them like there's to Pock, get him Now on Vlad TV, he says or it lose to that.
Speaker 1:You know, they thought to Pock had a strap, so they pulled out their straps and started firing tomato tomato. Ultimately, all three of the guys that were also in the car are now dead. So the only one that is left is Keith D. So they picked him up this week or last week and now he is going to face prosecution, jury trial, whatever for the murder of two pop. And they recently came out and said that they are going to ask, should night, to testify against Keith D In the murder of two pop. But should? Night is already saying no it ain't going to happen.
Speaker 1:And I think he's even saying Keith D is not the one who killed two pop, yep, yep. So that is a lot to unpack. And I I had to talk to I didn't have to but my son, my younger son, who's 12, austin, as he was like so what exactly happened with two Pock? Because now he's old enough to understand and I broke it down to him and he just really kind of shook his head and was like that's crazy. I was like that was a crazy time for me as a.
Speaker 1:I was in the seventh grade when I found out to Pock got murdered. My best friend, jessica Evans, called me and said girl, two Pock got shot. I was like again, okay, you know, all right. She was like no, he's dead. I said you're lying. She said turn on the news. And sure enough, I turned on the news and what was the article, what was the heading? Two Pock, rapper to pop, was killed in a drive by shooting. And I broke down crying Because one thing Austin asked me. He said how did it make you feel? And I was like it made me feel horrible, because one two Pock was a prolific actor and rapper, but he was also just coming into his prime. So there's a lot to unpack here, so that's where we are, y'all.
Speaker 2:Good job, he's told most of the story. Great job, yeah. So there's a couple of things that come to mind for me and when I saw the video and we were going to add a video clip so you can see that you can hear the actual footage of what the prosecutors from- the.
Speaker 2:Vatican, but prosecution attorney, attorney general has to say the officer is speaking on it. One of the things is like why did it take so long? Number two is the guy didn't actually pull the trigger. They're getting them on a technicality, more of a conspiracy charge. So how are you going to prove that he murdered somebody and he was in the car with them? You can prove that the conspiracy is peace, but I guess the battle law says if you're riding with them then you can get accused of murder too.
Speaker 2:So knowing that and knowing that this guy admitted to basically admitted to riding with them this is not something that's new. He's been talking about it for a long time. So why didn't you arrest him then? And then the other thing is you know the framing of his narrative and saying that he's the leader of this gang, when other people saying he's just kind of a figurehead that be kind of talking a lot and he's not really the head man in the crypt game. And then the last thing is that whole code with you know gang life in this whole we talked earlier about. You know we were going to talk about snitching within this culture too, and that might be a follow up. You know episode that we might do. We might not get into that on this episode, but those are three things that really stuck out to me in about this interview. So I want to roll the clip and let you guys you know, hear what was actually said, and then we'll come back to it.
Speaker 5:Alright, folks, we are going out right now to Las Vegas. The update on the Tupac Shakur murder update.
Speaker 6:Let's listen this afternoon. 27 years, 27 years. For 27 years the family of Tupac Shakur has been waiting for justice. We are here today to announce the arrest of 60 year old Dwayne Keith Davis, aka Keefe D, for the murder of Tupac Shakur. Davis was arrested this morning by my LVMPD criminal apprehension team and this investigation started on the 9th of September 7, 1996. It is far from over. It has taken countless hours, really decades, of work by the men and women of our homicide section to get to where we are today. Several of those detectives that are standing here with us include Detective Cliff Mogg, the lead detective on this case. He is now retired.
Speaker 6:Well, I know there's been many people who did not believe that the murder of Tupac Shakur was important to this police department. I'm here to tell you that was simply not the case. It was not the case back then and it is not the case today. Our goal at LVMPD has always been to hold those accountable and responsible for Tupac's violent murder accountable, just like we do for every homicide victim in our city. Every single victim, every life that is lost is important and remains a priority to this police department as we methodically built this case to move forward with an arrest. It was also important that, at the same time we're building towards a successful prosecution, we work closely with our esteemed district attorney, steve Wolfson, in his office to ensure that is going to happen. Mr Davis' own words reinvigorated our case in 2018. I'm going to give you some of those details and I'm going to introduce to you our homicide lieutenant, jason Johansson, and he will provide you many of the details on how we got here today.
Speaker 5:Lieutenant, Thank you, sheriff, and thank you everybody for being here today. My name is Jason Johansson and I'm the homicide lieutenant with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, and my goal here today is to walk you through our investigation and what led us to the indictment of Dwayne Davis, also known as KVD, for the murder of Tupac Shakur. This case has been reviewed by our homicide team and homicide detectives for over two and a half decades and, ultimately, our persistence in this investigation has paid off. Let me walk you through a timeline of events that, as we know them right now, prior to September 7th of 1996, as we all know, tupac Shakur was a artist who was signed with death row records and that death row records and its CEO, marion Sugnite, were closely. He was a lead artist of the South Side Compton Crips and that they had an ongoing feud with the South Side Compton Crips. Dwayne Davis was the leader and shock collar of the South Side Compton Crips and both of these gangs operated out of the Southern California area of Compton.
Speaker 5:On the 9th of September 7th of 1996, tupac Shakur, along with Sugnite and members of their entourage, which include members of Maupiru, came to Vegas to attend the Mike Tyson fight at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. Members of the South Side Compton Crips, which included Dwayne Davis along with his nephew, orlando Anderson, were also in attendance. At the same event, as both were leaving the fight, members of death row records spotted Orlando Anderson near an elevator bay bank inside the MGM and at that time they began to kick and punch him near that elevator bank. I will now show you hotel security footage, as many of you have already seen, related to this incident, and on this incident you will see Tupac Shakur, who is wearing a shiny satin-y shirt, along with Marion Sugnite, who is a large man in a brown suit, punching and kicking Orlando Anderson. Following this incident, you will see hotel security intervene and then they will leave the area of the fight. Little did anyone know that it is this incident right here that would ultimately lead to the retaliatory shooting and death of Tupac Shakur.
Speaker 5:Following this incident, tupac and Shugnait both left the MGM to make their way to a post-fight party which was to occur at a local nightclub. At the same time, word had spread amongst members of the Southside Compton Crips of what had occurred inside the MGM, and then that's when Dwayne Davis began to devise a plan to obtain a firearm and retaliate against Shugnait and Mr Shakur for what occurred inside the hotel against Mr Anderson. After Davis obtained a gun, he entered into a white Cadillac along with Terrence Brown, deandre Smith and Orlando Anderson. Based on our investigation, this is where we know they were seated At some point in time. As they were in the white Cadillac. Mr Davis took the gun that he had obtained and provided it to the passengers in the rear seat of the vehicle. As they were driving west on Flamingo Road near Coval, they had located the Black BMW which was driven by Shugnait, and then the passenger seat was Tupac Shakur. As they turned around, they pulled up near the passenger side of that vehicle and immediately began shooting at Mr Knight and Mr Shakur. Following that shooting, the white Cadillac fled the area southbound on Coval, and after officers arrived on scene, tupac was later transported to the University Medical Center where he was treated medically and died approximately six days later.
Speaker 5:On September 13th. My homicide section handled this investigation from its onset and for a short amount of time. Within a short amount of time, what we knew was that we were working at a gang investigation where our victims, our witnesses and our suspects were all from Southern California and not local to Las Vegas. Within the first few months of the investigation, our detectives knew most of the information I just briefed you on. However, we never had the necessary evidence to bring this case forward and present it for criminal charges.
Speaker 5:As time went on, this case had been reviewed multiple times by different investigators assigned to my section, but it wasn't until 2018 that this case was reinvigorated as additional information came to light related to this homicide, specifically, dwayne Davis' own admissions to his involvement in this homicide investigation that he provided to numerous different media outlets In our section. We knew at this time that this was likely our last time to take a run at this case, to successfully solve this case and bring forth a criminal charge. It was at that time that this case was assigned to Cliff Mogg, a detective within my homicide section, and over the last five years, this my section worked closely hand in hand with the Clark County District Attorney's Office and followed a systematic investigative plan. Over the last five years, we've conducted countless interviews and corroborated numerous facts that were not only consistent with the crime scene on the night of the incident, but also corroborated and were consistent with the sequence of events that night. This ultimately led to us procuring a search warrant which was executed at Mr Davis' residence in Henderson, nevada. And following the execution of that search warrant, in close coordination with the District Attorney's Office, this case was presented to the grand jury, which ultimately led to Davis being indicted on charges of murder.
Speaker 5:Before I hand it off to the District Attorney's Office, I would be remiss if I didn't thank Detective Mogg and all the other detectives that were not only assigned this case or reviewed this case, but all the other detectives from other agencies that assisted us in this investigation. They know who they are and thank you very much for all the assistance you provided. It does not go unnoticed. And, lastly, one of the most important things in my opinion is that we need to make this be a reminder that the charge of murder does not have a statute of limitations. This agency has been and is invested in solving our cold case homicides so that we can bring closure to those families and justice for those victims of homicide. And with that I will turn it over to the Clark County District Attorney, steve Wolfson.
Speaker 3:Thank you, lieutenant Johansson. I appreciate it. Good afternoon. I am the Las Vegas Clark County District Attorney, steve Wolfson.
Speaker 3:It has often been said justice delayed is justice denied. It's a quote we hear often and for many, many years when talking about our legal system, but not in this case. Today justice will be served in the murder of Tupac Shakur. I'd like to acknowledge the relentless work of the many Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department homicide detectives. We've mentioned Detective Cliff Mogg many times and we can't mention his name enough. He is the detective, along with his colleagues, that brought this case here today to you.
Speaker 3:A Clark County grand jury has indicted Dwayne Keith Davis with one count of open murder with use of a deadly weapon with a gang enhancement. Davis will appear in court in the next few days or so for a hearing to determine his custody status and to set a jury trial date. This grand jury has been receiving evidence for months and has determined there is sufficient evidence to justify the filing of this criminal indictment. I've assigned two of my top prosecutors, mark DeGiacomo and Benu Palal, to prosecute this case. I know a lot of people have been watching and waiting for this day.
Speaker 3:Tupac Shakur is a music legend and for a long time, this community and worldwide have been wanting justice for Tupac. Today, we are taking that first step. Tupac was actually quoted as saying death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside while still alive never surrender. Well, we didn't surrender. Thanks to the great work of the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department under the leadership of Sheriff Kevin McMayhill, lieutenant Johansson, retired Detective Cliff Mogg, I am proud to announce the return of this document. This is the indictment we've been waiting almost three decades for. It spells out the facts and circumstances and what justifies a Clark County grand jury in returning an indictment. Justice will be served, thank you.
Speaker 6:Thank you, Steve. I'd just like to say that the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Homicide Section, year over year, solves over 90% of the homicides that occur in our jurisdiction. You won't find that anywhere else in the United States. For those family members that have lost somebody that we haven't solved that case, I want you to know, just like in this case, we're not going to give up. I also say to you that as we begin we're going to take a couple of questions. I want you to remember in your questioning that this investigation, subsequent arrest and now indictment is only the beginning of the process and we are committed and invested in ensuring a successful prosecution as we move forward. So with that, we'll take any questions that you might have. Ken what they told you.
Speaker 3:The family has reached out to my office, I imagine also to Metro. We've been in communication with them. We understand that they are welcoming this news, they are pleased with this news and they are certainly aware of the return of this indictment.
Speaker 4:We anticipate them being at court for a rain, mr Davis.
Speaker 3:I don't think they'll be at the arraignment. I mean that's a relatively short hearing. I know that they'll be involved. I know that they'll want to be apprised of what goes on on a frequent basis.
Speaker 4:Back. Did you talk about any of the statements that you made? That your curiosity again or got you back into this case?
Speaker 6:Jason, you want to answer that. We're not going to talk about any particular statements, but maybe he can address that globally.
Speaker 5:There's a lot that's going to come out when it comes to time for trial, but he provides his own series of statements that are very consistent with the evidence that we have on the scene that we've obtained through our investigation. I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 4:Did you identify anything that came from the raid? I'm sorry, the service of the warrant in July that you didn't know before.
Speaker 5:That's a good question. What I'll say about the search warrant that we did in July, that we obtained information or evidence during that execution, that search warrant that corroborated information obtained through our investigation, and I'll leave it at that until we go to trial Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Hello, I have to be language in all three, so I know that this was obviously a big move. Is there anyone else being looked at at this point? I know a lot of people have passed away since this incident, but is anyone else being looked at as part of this investigation still?
Speaker 5:So, as I stated earlier, in this case the only living suspect related to this investigation is Dwayne Davis. All other three suspects are deceased, vanessa.
Speaker 3:Thank you, vanessa Murphy. Chenelay. Steve, can you talk about the murder charge, if he?
Speaker 1:is not the one believed to have pulled the trigger.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, under Nevada law and this is the law in most states in this country you can be charged with a crime whether you're directly involved or whether you're an aide or an abetter. We have an aiding and abetting statute which provides that if you help somebody commit a crime, you can be equally as guilty. The best example is two guys that agree to commit a bank robbery and one of them goes into the bank with a gun and actually commits the robbery, and the other guy is the getaway driver, never went in the bank, but he assisted the guy that went in the bank, so he's equally guilty. That is one of the theories in this case as well.
Speaker 6:Last question.
Speaker 3:Do investigators believe that Davis was the only person behind the plan to kill Tupac, or was he one of multiple people who came up with this plan?
Speaker 5:I think the best way to characterize that is Dwayne Davis was the shot caller for this group of individuals that committed this crime and he orchestrated the plan that was carried out to commit this crime. Can you?
Speaker 6:say how he obtained the gun or who he obtained it from.
Speaker 5:We know that he obtained it from a close associate. That's a lot of the actual details of who specifically all that come out of trial but he obtained it from a close associate of his.
Speaker 4:Thank you for coming Appreciate it, thank you. Thank you, mr Davis.
Speaker 2:Let's unpack this thing. Number one why did it take so long, dr Asia? We had a lot of controversial things that happened. We talk about the R Kelly. I don't want to bring Kelly in here.
Speaker 1:Everybody knows about this situation that has nothing to do with this.
Speaker 2:Yes, it does. So far as we're talking about our culture and how we frame superstars. It's all this controversial thing about R Kelly thing and he went to jail because he was kind of creepy. Now this Tupac thing is. It's been sitting here for a long time and it's been people have been having ideas. Is he still living?
Speaker 2:People are saying kind of speculating who did it? All of a sudden they pop up with this guy. What do you think? Just thinking about how much Tupac was adored and people were kind of put like holding this case for so long and then all of a sudden we got somebody, this guy, right here. He was riding with him, so we're going to accuse him of doing it. What do you think? Some of the thoughts of some of the people who love Tupac so much and put him on the high palace, so what do you think is going through their head right now? Do you think they would actually believe, like you know, like, oh man, you know, y'all just found somebody. Or they believe that this guy yeah, this is the guy who did it.
Speaker 1:So okay. So let's be clear Tupac and Kale's that's not even a comparison, because Tupac and we're talking about hip hop culture. That's this hip hop culture, if you look at. So, this is the year that we celebrate 50 years of hip hop and so you look at the evolution of hip hop. Just look at the evolution of hip hop Like that. That's the framework around this story is the evolution of hip hop and how we got to where we are. Because hip hop was not violent, it was a skill of just. It was a skill of beats and mixing and being able to use wordplay. And you know, at the beginning you just had people rhyming and rapping about life and what they saw in the streets. And it's not until the 90s, late 80s, early 90s, that you see a shift in hip hop.
Speaker 2:But is it really about hip hop or is it about this situation and about gangs?
Speaker 1:No, it's about hip hop. This is about the Tupac, and Biggie's story is an evolution about the turn of music, because if you look at any other genre of music, you do not have the deaths that you have in hip hop.
Speaker 2:But these are two separate things. Because they were, he's a Crip, and don't you think this was a Crip in Bloods thing? Because these guys, keith and Orlando Anderson, had nothing to do with rap. The fight had nothing to do with rap beef. It had more to do with what happened when someone gets jumped by a rival gang. So I think one of the things that I think we need to look at is how this narrative has been framed. Now hip hop has a history of edginess. Now I'm older than you. I was when hip hop and the first hip hop song dropped. I was one of the guys who listened to it. So I'm going to have a hip hop history Because you were still in the womb, waiting on to come on the set. I was listening to the music and jamming. I was on 6th Avenue doing my little pop locking dance.
Speaker 1:So if that's the case, then you can agree that hip hop has nothing to do with Bloods or Crips. It had nothing to do with gangs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but this whole situation ain't related to I don't believe I don't know the all the backstory, because this is some stuff going on in the background that we have. No, we don't have access to that story. But I get very cautious when two dudes when it boils down to dudes who have beef, one of them, two of them happen to be in hip hop and the one, who's the producer should not is connected to the bloods gang. Trying to frame it as this is a hip hop thing. Now a lot of the gang stuff is bleeding over in hip hop, but back then it was just like, okay, these are two gang members doing a thing, because you have other folks who were rapping. They were in gang, but gangs did not bleed into hip hop. I agree with you on that. It did not bleed into it until that two-pot thing.
Speaker 2:And then it came out because he started that movement with Thug Life and so they turned into a gang narrative and he didn't even. That's not how he framed it If you listen to his previous music, compared to the music he dropped when he got out of jail, that was a whole nother spin. Snoop Dogg talked a lot about how he flipped the script on them because after he went to jail it was a whole, nother different thing. So those are the. So I don't want to perpetuate this narrative that hip hop has anything to do with that situation had anything to do with hip hop when really it was about some gangs. Somebody got jumped from a robber gang it's gang retaliation, and so when Shil was talking about A Tellin, we believe, and we have our gang codes that we ordered by, and that's what we're going to roll with. We're going to lean in a judiciary system to kind of dictate this stuff.
Speaker 1:So I would have to push back, because if you chalk it up to gang stuff, then you really minimize the work of Tupac, and that's what I'm trying to say is that ultimately it did end because of gang stuff. But that's just a piece of the story. If you look at Tupac's history, his mother was a what A Black Panther.
Speaker 1:His father was a what A Black Panther. Tupac was a backup dancer. Tupac went to school, so he did not start out with gang life. This is a tale of getting with the wrong folks and ending up with bad results. Because if you look at the history of Death Row, who's not with Shuh, who left all before all this? Look at the story of Snoop, look at the story of Dre, look at the story of them. If you look at any autobiographies, they will tell you that it went from being the music to some other stuff. And if we reduce it down to gang stuff, then we really ultimately say that Tupac was nothing but a thug.
Speaker 2:I didn't say he was a thug, though.
Speaker 1:But I think it's too simple to say well, he just died over it. It was over gang stuff. It was much bigger than that. I think the story is one where you can start out well, but because of your association Because even Snoop does an interview I think it was with either the Breakfast Club I think it was the Breakfast Club and he talked about Tupac not really being about that life. He really wasn't that life. But you are guilty by association If you think about why Dr Dre even left in the first place from Death Row.
Speaker 1:It was bad business dealings and a lot of stuff that was ultimately going to cost them their life too, tupac never, got out in time and he fed into I believe into that negativity, because you have a lot of people that would tell you that Tupac was a thinker, he was very smart, he was very intelligent, he was very gifted, and I really think it boils down to you getting tied up into very bad business deals with very bad folks and ending up with some very bad results. Now, yes, he made his own decisions, but I posted a question on Facebook. Do people think he would have been alive had he left Death Row? If he had jumped out the game of Death Row with Snoop and Dre, would he be alive today?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good question. I mean, because when Death Row came to be like Shug Knight was Shug Knight is not old like a newbie to the hip, wasn't a newbie to the hip hop culture and for a long time you hear stories about feeling vanilla ice, ice-ice baby. We ain't putting vanilla ice on that level, but he strong-armed him. I mean the story after story of Shug Knight being involved in the music industry and putting a smack now. So a lot of people talk about that story and how he rolls up on people, even Master Pete, you know that's like a uh, nah, nah, nah, nah. He even said nah. Shug Knight tried to roll up on the hip.
Speaker 2:So you know, like, would Tupac would have been alive? I don't know, because you know, like these, these contract and how he enforces stuff. He was, he was clearly saying we, I'm in a gang, this is what we do, and so you know, would he would have been alive? I don't know. I think a lot of people had beef with him, I mean, and that's kind of what it is. I mean after he got shot that first time and when he was in Puffy Studio. After he got shot, we know, as mental health folks, paranoia, trauma can bring about a lot of paranoia, and so, especially if you don't get any help for yourself, and if you go back and watch some of those clips, you know you could see the evolution of him from the digital underground.
Speaker 2:He's singing. I Get Around to hit him up when he talking about Big E and doing this East Coast, west Coast B. That's a big transformation and I'm glad you pointed that out. That, yeah, he came from a powerful, you know family that advocated for Blacks rights and and like came, you know, in empowerment. But also, you know, he evolved into, you know, getting involved in this, in this game, in this game life. If Snoop said he wasn't he about that life but he did not say he didn't get involved in that because he did, he did with the flags, just like Snoop does.
Speaker 2:So, really, if you look at the inner work is being that culture. They have rules around who get a pass and who don't get a pass, who, who. You got people who to play sports, that kind of that's the neighborhood they grew up in and so therefore, they take on and say this is the game that from my neighborhood you got people who you know are entertainers, who come from those neighborhoods. They don't necessarily go out there on the street selling drugs and shooting people, but you know they're part of that, that culture. Now, I've never been in a game so I don't necessarily know the ins and out of it, but you know, from the stories I hear, I mean that's it's a serious thing as an organization.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, ultimately, you know two parks rise and fall does go into. You know who are you around, because it takes Snoop to even talk about, like when he left Death Row, and this is on the Breakfast Club. When he left Death Row, you know Shug was doing you know bullying type behavior and you know blah, blah, blah. And Snoop was going to do an album called F Death Row and this is when he signs on to no Limit with Master P and so he's telling Master P you know F them da, da, da, da, da da. You know I'm gonna write a whole album about F Death Row. Master P says do not do that. If you do that you will die. Because when you put out the message F them you got, master P was giving him gang, like you wanna rap and say what you wanna say. But these guys on the other side ain't looking at it as rap, they're looking at it as an invitation, an invitation to come do what you gonna do. Master P talks him out of the album and Snoop says he thanks him for that Because Shug was not about the music, it was a. What you see now, folks who say they got a record label, come sign on with me with no freaking credentials and you're rapping very good rapper but now you're rapping for a gang who he now owns you under contract.
Speaker 1:Two Puck was bigger than Shug. Shug needed Two Puck Because when you look at the whole lineup, like look, look, look, y'all can't tell me now. Because when you look at the lineup, you looking at Corrupt and Dazz Jelliger and all the rest of the West Coast family, when you look at them, a lot of them are gang affiliated. But Two Puck was more than that. He was an actor. This boy had several movies under his belt before he passed. He was a producer. He helped other people. He was not Dog Pound but the Outlaws. He started his own kind of group. Had given the chance, two Puck would have blown up much bigger than Shug. He would have eventually. He would have eventually broken away from Shug. Because Shug was just a thug I'll say thug who had a record label and signed Two Puck on. He hit jackpot with no fucking credentials Excuse my language, but it's the truth and Two Puck, I think, just could not get out. And you try, you know cause. We have to remember Two Puck is young at this time. He's what, like 24?
Speaker 2:26, 26.
Speaker 1:He's a baby in this. He is a baby in this. You have to really look at the history of Two Puck to understand that he really evolved rather quickly. You go from being a backup dancer to being gang affiliated.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And another thing that Snoop said was it was Snoop or somebody else and they were talking about how you got rappers that joined late in the gang, late in life, to be gang members. That's like pledging grand chapter for for turning to a subordinate yeah, assistant gang member.
Speaker 1:Exactly Cause he talked about six, nine. You know, six nine joined a gang as an adult, whereas you got gang members that are baby affiliated. You, you affiliated as soon as you in the womb. That wasn't Two Puck's story, but unfortunately that became his story. He made it his story and instead of being with his comrades Dre and Snoop and the rest that left Defro, he's now being memorialized because he made a bad decision that night.
Speaker 1:I think he was making bad decisions all the way up into it, cause we got to remember he had a rape case against him. He had been shot, he in the elevator, which caused him to be paranoid against Biggie. He was spinning at the cameras and say F the police, like. I think this goes into the history of the evolution of hip hop and it's downward spiral, because now we look at a lot of rappers that are being murdered. Now it's almost as if it's for sport and when you compare when hip hop started, hip hop is only 50. Nas is 50 years old. That means it's been around since he was alive. Nas is still banging.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know I. You know I enjoy hip hop and I think sometime hip hop it does get a bad rep. And I think how this narrative is framed is very important. It's very important to listen to what's actually being said and how it's been framed, because what it does it builds up stereotypes about hip hop, black men, black people, and you know this whole, you know what, even stereotypes about gangs and how they started, and you know what's the purpose of even having a gang. How did it even start?
Speaker 2:And we probably won't get into that this episode, but you know that's one of the things that we always have to kind of pay attention to is you know what is what's narrative? Are we selling? You know we, dr Asia, we sit in a powerful seat. You know we got a microphone in front of our face and people tune in, they listen to us and that helps build a narrative. And so what I'm telling folks be have some discernment of what you listen to, do your research, do some background stuff and then you come up and make your own opinion about the situation At the end of the day. You know you got, you know, four black men with you know it sounds like they have kids and all that stuff. I don't know if two pocket kids and what.
Speaker 1:I don't think they have kids, they don't have kids.
Speaker 2:But you got two black men solving a conflict by violence and ending up in a death, in a death of another black man. And if we look at this like this narrative now I mean that's the that has since that incident, you know that has been a critical theme of you know, black men versus black men interaction solving two, four black men solving a situation with violence. So that is the biggest thing that I take away, I get out of it. Those are the things I reflect on and I try to pay attention to what's the main narrative, not just the narrative you're selling for ratings. I'm looking at the narrative. What's the real story?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, the real story is that you have a beautiful genre of music. Hip hop is so magical at the way you can rhyme and rhythm and you know, use a similes and just the word play Like it's amazing. It's a very unique expression of music and art, and I'm from the time yeah, you're older than me, but once again, hip hop is only 50 years old Only. I'm 40. So it's only 10 years out from me when I was born.
Speaker 2:Oh, a lot was happening. You don't remember Southern Pepper, though.
Speaker 1:A lot. Oh please. I was part of Southern Pepper, Queen Latifa, all of the UNITY KRS1, you know music when it was positive or rested development like I'm watching.
Speaker 2:Don't, let's not forget about that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's KRS1.
Speaker 2:No, that's not. That's Chuck D. Come on now, rookie Chuck D Chuck.
Speaker 1:D.
Speaker 2:Chuck D Flavor. Flabe of what is, professor Grip, you better do your research.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right.
Speaker 2:See KRS1 was like book it down production. Let's not have a Book it down production.
Speaker 1:All right, all right, all right, all right, all right. So I got that part wrong, but it's all good, cause at the end of the day, you do see a shift from positive rap to more violent rap. I mean, we can look at the history of the crack epidemic and everything with NWA and all the rest of them, and they're telling their stories about their community, but then we get I feel like we get stuck in this cycle of in-rap where all we're doing is telling the horrific stories of violence. And so you know, you've got I was looking up a list of people who have been murdered as rappers, you know. Of course we got Tupac, tupac's friend, yaffy Kedafi, notorious BIG, who we have. Sabotage, we got proof, we have. Who is that? Jerem?
Speaker 2:Master J.
Speaker 1:Jerem Master.
Speaker 2:J, not Jerem Master. J yeah, jerem Master. J yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, dolby Pop, Smoke, nipsey, hustle, king, vine, Young Doth Take Off, and those are the big names. We're not even talking about the ones that are trying to start their careers, or I mean, hip hop is becoming more violent just in the lyrics, and we're not even gonna talk about the women's rap as a totally different, totally different conversation. But no, Tupac and Tupac's story, I feel, is the turning point, is the was the turning point for hip hop. Tupac and Biggie, it was the East Coast, west Coast rap. Both of them got murdered and we, let's, let's please note nobody knows who murdered Notorious BIG.
Speaker 1:His case is still unsolved.
Speaker 2:Still unsolved.
Speaker 1:Still unsolved. And so you know, while it is a beautiful genre, it is also one that depicts a lot of violence and you see a lot of these rappers, or the rappers that we're hearing about, falling into those words and I'm big on words where, whatever you say, that's what you get. Whatever you say, that's what you get. I was looking through somebody's Facebook last night and you know how you get to stumble in and scrolling through just random people's Facebook and stuff like that, and you just kind of looking I didn't know this guy, but I was looking at him and he had a video about, like how you have to move away from people and do different things so to get ahead. And as I'm scrolling, I realized this guy is dead, he's gone.
Speaker 1:And I'm scrolling, I'm scrolling this 2023 and I'm scrolling, I'm scrolling, I'm scrolling and come to find out he was murdered back in 2015. And in one of his posts he has he's hugging his mom and he has a gun on his you know whatever. And he said my mom knows I'm a thug until the day I die. And sure enough, the day he died he was, he was shot. So I do believe that we speak life and we speak death.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And rap. Unfortunately, you got some really great rappers out there that are just lyrical, and I love my old heads. That is. J Cole Nas. Kendra. Lamar, absolutely, and some, even some of these underground guys who are just really using word play. I mean, I like a track where I have to go back and listen, like what, I'm going to go see Wu Tang and Nas this weekend, so I'm like yo hip hop is not dead.
Speaker 1:Hip hop is not dead, so it's not all bad. But for those ones that are trying to break out, they're going into that mainstream hip hop and unfortunately it's white folks who are running the music and they're setting us up to sell those things that deprive our community and sets drugs and rock and roll sales.
Speaker 2:Yes, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:And gang violence and gang violence and violence, just in general I mean materialism and materialism and sex and all of that. I mean, if you look, if you listen to the lyrics, all it is is I took my gag out and shot him in the head. Now is mama crying and he did like.
Speaker 2:I'm sure that's somebody's lyric, I'm sure that's somebody's lyrics Asia hey look, I'm dropping a mixtape next week.
Speaker 1:So, check it out, but it definitely ain't gonna be about no game violence, because I held a gun. I shot a gun. I don't even like guns. The most I can rap about is raising my kids and having to clean the house all the time, so I hear that rap every week. Everybody rapping that, everybody rapping that. But what's your takeaway from all of this? We say a lot.
Speaker 2:Well, I just think you know. Like I said, my biggest takeaway is number one.
Speaker 2:I'm glad someone is being brought to justice for a two-pawc death so we can get some closure to this thing. And the other thing is, you know, just paying attention to the narratives that we listen to. Please do your research, please look a little more into this and don't stereotype and be bad, biased by people. Get some, get the backstory and please check, do some fact checking, because it could be a lot of propaganda out there because everybody looking for likes and to go viral with their stuff.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, my takeaway is that this two-pawc's murder, I'm glad. I am also glad that somebody that his conscience because I really do believe it was his conscience and his wanting fame has led him to be arrested. So I'm glad that somebody is accountable for his arrest, even though it was a long time coming. But that's no snitching culture, which we talk about later on. But I just I mourn, I mourn hip hop, I mourn for hip hop.
Speaker 1:You know Nas talks about how hip hop isn't dead but how you have these generic rappers who are just cookie cutter now, and you know it's true, it's true. Yeah, If you want to get to fame fast, go with the norm, Go with the norm. But if you want to really build a fan base and you really want longevity, yeah, you're going to have to make mistakes. Yeah, you're going to have to do like Master P and sell them out the back of your car. Yes, you're going to have to be authentic and yes, you are going. There is a fan base for people who don't want to hear about violence all the time. We really want to hear your wordplay. I really want to hear how you can make it make sense. Like, um, little Wayne, little Wayne's words like it's stupid, Like, yes, you know what, Sometimes I can't even listen to little Wayne because I'm like he gonna make me thank too much. Sometimes I just need, like, just it's gonna make you like right Exactly.
Speaker 1:It could be hard to follow, but his wordplay is stupid. Be creative. Yeah, you might have grown from in gang violence or you might have grown in bad neighborhoods. That's part of your story, but there's so much of a world that you could tell a story of. So if you're listening to music, listening to rap, or you want to get a hip hop, go beyond the mainstream, encourage you. There is a fan base that you don't have to be stuck with cookie cutter rap or hip hop because that doesn't last. Either get she killed or eventually it's going to fade off because there's going to be another cookie cutter rapper after you. Be unique, be unique.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1:You all have a great day and thank you for listening to our show. Given the comments about like what are your thoughts on the Tupac arrest? What is your thoughts on hip hop all together, like I said, I wanted to come back and be more creative. What are your thoughts? How do you feel? Hit us in line. You all take care of yourselves and, most importantly, take care of each other. Peace.
Speaker 2:Peace, peace.